Monday, June 22, 2015

Larry Vickers bans Appendix Carry in his classes. Some gunnies pissed.

In today's news, noted shooter Larry Vickers has just banned Appendix Carry in his classes, and it seems that a lot of people who know and have done a lot less with guns than he has are upset, at least per his facebook page.
His announcement:

Heads up for anyone attending a pistol class taught be me - I am banning use of appendix carry holsters in my classes
I know of two different students in two different classes taught by two different instructors who have shot themselves reholstering - I don't want my name added to that list
If an individual wants to carry concealed that way that is fine by me but an open enrollment class with 15-20 different skill level shooters and upwards of 100 draws and reholsters is an accident waiting to happen when you add in a pistol like a Glock or M&P
This will go into effect immediately - if you are planning on attending a class in the near future and this affects you and you need a different holster please email me via my website and I will get you squared away
Thanks for your support
*Update; a number of people think this means I don't support appendix carry - that's not the case. You are free to carry however you want - however I feel in an open enrollment class is it not appropriate so therefore in the future I am not allowing it. If this means you don't want to attend one of my classes, or I'm 'scratched off your list as an instructor', or you won't buy anymore of my products ( all comments this thread) then that's fine by me - in my position all that goes out the window once one student shoots themself in the genitals - all the Facebook bickering in the world won't fix that

Appendix Carry, for those not familiar, is the concealment of a handgun inside the waistband directly in front of you. It has it's pros--concealability, controllability and speed of draw, but is also has it's cons: a negligent discharge while re-holstering is going to inflict a much more serious wound than one involving a hip holster. (Great article here.)

The argument is currently running "fast and furious" (with the exception of Eric Holder's participation in this version) on his site and he's taking on all comers who have an issue with it.

I don't.

To be fair, I'm not one of the Appendix Carry fans personally (nothing wrong with it...I just never took it up) but I know several people who carry that way and I trust and respect them and their abilities such that I'm never uncomfortable around them on the range or anywhere else. That said, Larry sums it up perfectly when he explains that his students and prospective students can do whatever they choose anywhere else, but in his class, it's his rules. And since it's also his liability insurance and his reputation, I think that's more than fair.

I also think that it's kind of punk for a few other instructors out there who are also well-respected in their own right to use this issue to take shots at Vickers, both on their own sites and on his own, as I've observed today a couple of times. (Names withheld to protect the guilty.) Come on, guys...we as gunnies can agree to disagree on tactics and I personally think that we should keep our disagreements out of the public eye. If you as a shooter or instructor like appendix carry--or SERPA holsters, or whatever--by all means use them, endorse them and instruct in the proper techniques if you're an instructor. But if you don't agree with a fellow instructor who thinks oterwise, let's not get into a public skunk fight. Shooters are still free to do what they wish on their own time and students are still free to choose which courses to take and which instructors to take lessons from.

Now personally, I like to take at least one new course from a different instructor each year, just to get the widest possible exposure to new and different concepts and skills (Come on, Aaron...we're running out of year here.) I'm still more than willing to take a course from Larry Vickers, because he's got cred and knows stuff, and I'm willing to take courses from other people of note who have different opinions and practices. In the end, more diversity in training puts more tools in your problem-solving toolbox and lets each shooter discover for him/herself what works best for them. In that regard, I find no reason for instructor vs. instructor pissing matches or the arguments from one-trick ponies about what should or should not be done. To that end, I support Larry Vickers' business choice and stand behind his decision, even should I at a later date decide to adopt appendix carry for myself.


  1. I pack a J Centennial all the time appendix. Sometimes even a Glock 26. At the local range draw and shoot from beneath a t-shirt.

    Just KYFFOTFT and you will be fine. If Vickers has a few cap themselves, it's more cause they touched the trigger while reholstering than anything else.

    Common sense folks. Just use common sense and train often.

  2. Don't fault him at all and fully agree with his methodology and reasoning as well. I also agree if an individual chooses to carry their HG in this mode of carry its on them.

  3. Appendix carry by guys has always seemed to me like an invitation to never reproduce again. But then I carry a Glock that sorta lacks a safety and I'd rather it be over THERE ...

  4. He stood up for what he believes, that is HIS right! And with his experience level, worth listening to...

  5. No problems with his standpoint. I have carried my Glock appendix. Never shot my lady parts or anything else, but easily done if you are not careful.

  6. Hey. I'm a libertarian, and believe in the marketplace. He doesn't want to do it in his venue? Hell, it's his venue!
    Customers irritated enough can shop elsewhere.


  7. Reholstering a DA revolver, S&W M&P, or Glock safely is more than just keeping your finger out of the trigger guard. Other things can get in there unnoticed. I tried out a Taurus 111 9mm recently. It has both a trigger mounted safety and a slide mounted safety. Engage the slide safety, reholster, disengage slide safety and you are ready to go.

  8. Anonymous7:40 PM

    I would be afraid of a 180 grain vasectomy or worse if you got in a hurry with appendix carry